Madhusoodhan,
The subject of discussion is about science and morals in the Vedas and related subjects and about providing evidence. Instead we are now discussing history.
Let us first finish the subject of Vedas being scientific and moral
If you want to discuss history please start a separate discussion. Otherwise the discussion will drag on meaninglessly flitting from one subject to another.
On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 at 20:42, Madhampatti53 madhampatti53@gmail.com [Keralites] <Keralites@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
What exactly is Xavier William trying to prove? His ignorance? Which he has already donein no uncertain terms. Yes, I agree that the word HINDU was never used to describe BARATVARSHA. The word HINDU was a corruption of the word INDUS
Ancient Greeks called Hindustan India which is now referred to as Republic of India. India was called such because Indian civilization was near Indus. Jambudvipa was used in ancient scriptures for the name of India before Bharata became the official name scriptures began using.
In ancient times, India was divided into smaller kingdoms like Kalinga, Magadh, Gandhar and so on. But most of these kingdoms followed the Aryan culture, Vedic rituals and religion and similar political set ups.You could say they were all part of one civilization. That is why, the concept of India was always there- from the time of Alexender's invasion to invasions by Sakas, Huns, Pathans, Mughals - all of them invaded 'India'. The travellers like Hieun Tsang, Fa Huen, Ibn Batuta talked about their visits to India. And that is why, while we do agree that it was the British who gave the final shape to what we today know as India, much before they came- Christopher Columbus had set out to 'discover' India. The British, French, Portuguese and Dutch all came to the land they had already known to be India because they had heard about it's riches. And from ancient times, many kings have tried to be emperor of this whole land that together formed India- Samudragupta, Kanishka, later the Mughals and finally the Europians. King Harshavardhana of Kanauj could not conquer the Southern part of India, so he called himself 'Uttarapathanatha'-the lord of the North. The title itself shows he acknowledged the un-vanquishedSouth to be part of the same country which he could not conquer.
Coming to the ancient name of this country- the ancient kings of the land called it Bharat after the name of King Bharat who had conquered the whole land. By ancient kings I mean the Aryans. Now the Aryans themselves were foreigners who settled by the river Sindhu. It is through mispronunciation that Sindhu became 'Hindu' or 'Indus' (Hinduism is therefore rather a way if life of the people who lived by the Sindhu than a religion, at least, that was what it was originally) and from there we have the names 'Hindusthan' and 'India.'
Once again, please encourage educated comments from your readers and not the kind of rubbish that is being published. Xavier needs to relearn more about Hinduism under a GURU and refrain from mouthing nonsense.
P. MADHUSUDAN
On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 7:54 PM Xavier William varekatx@gmail.com [Keralites] <Keralites@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Madampatti,I grant that you and your ancestors have a great pedigree whereas all the others are assholes. This is being repeated by Sanghis day in and day out without shame and without even a shred of evidence.The supreme court of India itself has admitted many times that there is no clear cut definition for the word Hinduism. But Sanghi fools rush in where supreme court justices fear to tread. Can you show a single instance where the word Hindu is mentioned 2000 years ago? You will not find it because Hinduism is not a religion as the global religions are. In contrast the word Christian and Judaism are mentioned over 2000 years ago.You say that the Vedas are the oldest literature. What evidence do you have for that? You say Vedas have scientific and moral value... But you fail to provide evidence.I dont claim that not having a definition for the word Hindu or having a definition for Christian has any relevance. According to me all religions and their myths are full of shit and so, one piece of shit such as Hinduism cannot be better or worse than another piece of shit such as Christianity or Islam.I also find Sanghis harping all the time of their ancestral exploits without giving any evidence. Even if your heritage is better than all others in the world, so what? It is the now that matters and not any bloody heritage harking back to 2000 years.20-30 years ago I was running much better than Ussein Bolt and playing better soccer than Messi. That does not mean anything. You also leave out Chinese, Japanese and other cultures and religions when you compare them.If you go on boastin about your heritage without any evidence the only choice left for me will be to insult you.So dont brag all the time about your heritage. It makes others sick. If you have anything to boast about, do boast all you want as long as you have evidence for your claims.On Sun, 26 Jan 2020 at 11:16, Madhampatti53 madhampatti53@gmail.com [Keralites] <Keralites@yahoogroups.com> wrote:People like Xavier William and Fakhru are the semi literates who try to pretend they are educated. Gentlemen, first try to understand your own religions and interpret it as it was originally espoused. You need to be better educated to understand the meaning of SANATAN DHARMA.By perusing the correspondence between Xavier William , Fakhru and others my conclusions are these persons are literate, but definitely not educated. Every person has the right to raise genuine questions on any religion - but they should be educated ones.Please understand that the Abrahamic religions are less than 2000 years and are man made, unlike HINDUISM / SANATAN DHARMA.. As for Xavier Williams he seems to be arrogant and sits in judgement without knowing even the basics of his own religion or- Hinduism. His man-made Abrahamic religions have created havoc in civilised society over the centuries, invading nations for converting people of these countries. The size of the flock is diminishing fast and the respective heads are getting worried. All over Europe and UK major Cathedrals and Churches are getting converted to bars and entertainment complexes. The peoples' faith in Christianity are at its lowest while decent, civilised Moslems, are getting worried at the actions of the Jihadis, spreading mayhem and terror. and have started questioning the very basics of Christianity.There is no doubt that both Christianity and Islam are great religions and follow the same tenets of Sanatan Dharma. It is the so-called upholders who have misinterpreted these two religions to their advantage and brought a bad name to these religions.So let's not waste time talking rubbish as your two above mentioned correspondents are doing.P. MADHUSUDANOn Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 10:11 AM fakroo mohd fakruddeench@yahoo.com [Keralites] <Keralites@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Dear Madhusudhan you are criticising about some practice of Islam without try to know the truth
First of loud speaker which you have criticised it is used only less than 3 minutes at a time whereabout the bajanas and other Pooja is been played loudly almost evening and morning and you know how long it is been continuedSent from my iPhoneOn 25-Jan-2020, at 23:30, Madhampatti53 madhampatti53@gmail.com [Keralites] <Keralites@yahoogroups.com> wrote:I can only laugh at the morons who keep decrying the Vedas and Dharma. Just shows their ignorance - the poor fools.IGNORANCE CAN BE BLISS AND THESE FOOLS MUST FOLLOW THIS CARDINAL RULE.P. MADHUSUDANOn Sat, Jan 25, 2020 at 6:51 PM Srinivasan Venkatkrishna svkiyengar@yahoo.com [Keralites] <Keralites@yahoogroups.com> wrote:It is absurd to condemn Vedas which preaches the highest level morals required for a human. Only those who have known and learnt it can comment on it. All tom, dick and harries have started commenting which is unfortunate.Secondly, it is Muslims who adhere to the old principles and guidelines of growing beards, wearing caps and living an old age life which is absolutely not matching with modern life and styles. Quoting Quran Jihad is interpreted and followed in many places. Praying in a public place which causes inconvenience to the public and through loud speakers are modern and the latest concepts???Is there no one to question these?? This is India where we have more Freedom and we call it Democracy... Very unfortunate.RegardssvkOn Friday, January 24, 2020, 11:46:25 AM GMT+5:30, Madhampatti53 madhampatti53@gmail.com [Keralites] <keralites@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Some of the morons who respond to letters in the YAHOOGROUPS need a whiplashing for using abusive language in their replies. I am surprised you keep publishing these letters, especially those of Xavier William varekatx@gmail.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com>.Please keep a decent, civilised dialogue going and not moronic statements.P. MADHUSUDANOn Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 7:38 AM Xavier William varekatx@gmail.com [Keralites] <Keralites@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Once when East and West Berlin were separate countries and at enmity with each other, East Berlin dumped their rotten garbage and waste over the Berlin Wall into West Berlin. The next day West Berlin collected all the beautiful flowers and fruits they could collect, packed them up well and placed them as carefully as they could over the wall into East Berlin with a note saying each one gives what he has in abundance.Sanghis are always spewing hatred, violence and abuse because that is waht they are best at. Our Amarnath is the best example. I have always posted only logic taking care to define the terms I use and to provide evidence for my statements. But Amarnath the true Sanghi does not bother for such rules. Instead he spews forth abuses and that is a clear pointer to his great ancestry. He and his words are adequate evidence for his ancestry and culture and I do not have to provide any further evidence. Thank you Amarnath for providing me with the evidence to prove my statements.On Thu, 23 Jan 2020 at 22:16, amarnath gupta amarnath_gupta2003@yahoo.co.in [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:"I am not here,,,,,,," The scoundrel is here because he likes to hear clanking of coins* thrown in his begging bowl ,by the white-coat Slaves' Army, for each of his post .(* Credit--1st lesson "Greedy Baker" in Pearson English Text , many years back, when grandson was in Class III .)On Wednesday, 22 January, 2020, 11:15:46 pm IST, amarnath gupta amarnath_gupta2003@yahoo.co.in [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:"I am not here to listen to assumed greatness of your ancestors " Who were the ancestors of this GAANDU CHUUTIYA ?Why this Gandi Naali ka Kirra is here ? Is this forum this Haraami Chaandaal's BAAP KI PROPERTY ? What makes him deserve to be called BLAA BLAA BLAA ?On Monday, 20 January, 2020, 07:57:58 am IST, Xavier William varekatx@gmail.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Garg,There are two important rules for discussions and debates 1. Define the terms used 2. Provide evidence for your statements. You have been flouting these in spite of repeated reminders.This is the upteenth time that people like you make claims that the vedas are scientific but failing to evidence evidence for the same. This leaves me no choice but to call your bluff. If you are offended I am sorry. But heenceforth make sure that you keep t the rules of discussions 1. Define the terms used 2. Provide evidence for your statements.I am not here to hear about the assumed greatness of your ancestors.On Fri, 17 Jan 2020 at 07:10, 'K. C. Garg' kcg831@yahoo.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Mr, Xavier William,Mind your language.On Thursday, January 16, 2020, 08:19:32 AM GMT+5:30, Xavier William varekatx@gmail.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Garg,Dont go on babbling about vedas.There are two important ingredients to any discussion. 1. Define the terms you use. 2. Give evidence for your assertions.You boast the Vedas are scientific. Give at least a few verses of any of the four vedas which have scientific relevance.You speak of Dharama. Pl define the word dharma in one sentence..........If you cannot do this dont go on blah blahing about Vedas being scientific and dharmic.On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 at 06:25, 'K. C. Garg' kcg831@yahoo.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:Sanjeev Ji,Vedas teach only scientific, natural humanity.It is not a religion. It is Dharam.Religions are designed by different men...........Dharam is given by God in the beginning of the universe.Krishanj GargOn Wednesday, January 15, 2020, 10:37:35 AM GMT+5:30, sanjeev kulkarni jeevkulkarni@yahoo.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:I fully agree. Time and energy spent on stone-age thinking isa waste of money. We should teach scientific temper instead.SanjeevOn Wednesday, 15 January, 2020, 10:35:29 am IST, Xavier William varekatx@gmail.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:As an atheist I am of the opinion that no religion should be taught in schools since all religions are packed with superstitions without any evidence. Maybe we can teach stories from the scriptures just like other stories of Shakespeare or Harry Potter or Kalidasa are taught.I am not an expert in myths. I have read a major part of the Bible, far more than most Christian devotees have read. My opinion is that the stories of the Bible are boring are childish.I have read the Iliad on the Trojan war and and its sequel the Odyssey on the adventures of Odysseus after the Trojan war. They are far more interesting than the Bible. But I have not read the other Greek myths.I have read the Epic of Gilgamesh which forms part of the Babylonian myths. These are also little better than any other myth.In contrast the Ramayan and the Mahabharath are far more intriguing and mature. But in the final analysis they are also nothing but myths without any evidence and should be treated like Harry Potter stories which I understand are also very enticing.I can say that the Mahabharath is the best myth I have read. But I cannot say it is the best in the world since I have not read all the myths of the world.These myths may have had moral values for the people of those times, places and societies. But they have no significance for today's world. Instead each modern state has hundreds of thousands of rules and regulations enacted by elected bodies. What is more these modern laws and regulations are modified to accommodate changing social realities. In contrast religious laws and regulations never change and leave no room for improvement in an ever changing social environment.The only people who benefit from religions are the priests. This has been recognized at least 5000 years ago. Thus 5000 or more years ago declared the Vedas to be incoherent rhapsodies whose only usefulness was to provide livelihood to priests. They also held the belief that Vedas were invented by man, and had no divine authority. The same can be said of any religion and/or religious texts.In many religions including Hinduism and Christianity, fire is still made for poojas and ceremonies by the ancient way of rubbing two pieces of wood together. It is the same way with all religious practices and morals and dharma or whatever you call it.In conclusion teaching religion in schools is a sheer waste of time like teaching children to how to make fire by rubbing wood together when we already have matches and other implements which can make fires without even a fraction of the effort in making the fire by rubbing wood together.On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 at 15:27, Deva Sarran Samaroo devasamaroo@hotmail.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Xavierji
Glad you have read the Vedas. The Discussion is should HINDUISM BE TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS AND COLLEGES LIKE CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM ?.
AND WHAT SHOULD BE THE CONTENTS OF THE THE CIRRICULUM.
Deva
From: aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of Xavier William varekatx@gmail.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 9:24:11 AM
To: Arya Arya <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: HINDUISM NOT BEING TAUGHT IN INDIAN SCHOOLSI have read the Rig Vedas and read about the other Vedas. All of them are hymns in favor of some of the Vedic gods.
There is no science or Dharma in the Vedas. My number is India-9388605944. Calling me on the phone may not be the best way. Instead cite verses from the VEdas which promote Dharma. I have also cpointed out the violence in Vedic scriptures. But you do not reply. Instead you go on repeating the same thing. This is not a fair discussion.
Dharma means obligations or duties or laws. These change with everyday as the society develops. So dharma written 3000 years ago cannot be useful today since we have a different way of life from the Vedic age.
On Sat, 11 Jan 2020 at 17:46, 'K. C. Garg' kcg831@yahoo.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Mr. Xavier William,If you are honestly interested in knowing about the Vedas please give me a call at 0172-4010679or give me your telephone number I will call you.Thank you.Krishan Garg
On Saturday, January 11, 2020, 08:00:34 AM GMT+5:30, Xavier William varekatx@gmail.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Garg,Can you please cite some verses from the Vedas which teach Dharam. The Vedas are nothing but praises to the gods. First read the Vedas and then make such pompous claims.As for Dharam it is not something fixed. Our sense of ethics and morals changes with time. So what was Dharam yesterday is not dharam today and what is dharam today will not be dharam tomorrow. So to say that dharam should fixed on some ancient scriptures is absurd.In the past slavery, sati, caste etc were Dharam, but not any more. What is more we now have millions of codes and rules for our modern life. For instance what does the vedas or the bible say about traffic rules, banking rules, cyber laws, copyright laws and so on. Our parliament and assemblies are making rules and laws at every session in accordance with modern life. So why should we go back to our illiterate and ignorant ancestors for guidance on modern life? Ancient laws are as suited for modern life as a chisel and hammer are suited for repairing modern computers.
On Sat, 11 Jan 2020 at 06:56, 'K. C. Garg' kcg831@yahoo.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Vedas are the books that tell you all about the humanity, which is Dharam and not religion.Dharam is for all men and women and religion is only for a sect.Dharam is given by God for the whole universe. Religion is made by a human being.Krishan Garg
On Friday, January 10, 2020, 08:02:47 PM GMT+5:30, shirish dave smdave1940@yahoo.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
Hinduism must be taught at High School and university level
Hinduism is complete in its self. It is the religion fit for every type of person.
Geeta and Adwait are the top subjects of Hindu religion.
On Wednesday, 8 January, 2020, 01:21:04 am IST, Deva Sarran Samaroo <devasamaroo@hotmail.com> wrote:
IS THERE A LAW THAT BANMING THE TEACHING OF HINDUISM IN INDIAN SCHOOLS
AFTER CHECKING AND SEARCHING AND EXAMINING FACTS UNABLE TO FIND A NEHRU LAW THAT BANNED TEACHING OF HINDUISM IN SCHOOLS
HOPE TAKE GOVERNMENT TAKES NOTE AND MY FRIEND SHRI PRAKASH JAVADEKAR TAKES NOTE
History states that British stopped state subsidy of schools and that resulted in illiteracy.
I have been reading that Nehru banned teaching of Hinduism religion in schools.
While Muslims and Christians are allowed to do so.
On googling I could not find any LAW BANNING THE TEACHING OF HINDUISM ON SCHOOLS
SO WHERE DID THIS MOTION COMES FROM?
THE QUESTION IS -- IS THERE A LAW WHICH OVERTLY OR COVERTLY STOP THE TEACHING OF HINDUISM IN SCHOOLS?
There is no such law that directly bans Hindu religious teaching.
The RTE, however, is causing problems to educational institutions run by Hindus.
Since such institutions are most likely to teach Hinduism-related content, when such schools are suffering (as opposed to minority-run schools), it is indirectly have consequences and impacts the imparting of the Hindu religion and religious believes based teachings to our children and future generation.
PM NARENDRA MODIJI IT IS TIME TO CORRECT THIS ANOMALY.
THUS I PRAY
--
The greatest knowledge is the knowledge that there is so much more to know and the greatest discovery is the discovery that there is so much more to discover
"All new ideas good or bad, great or small start with a one-man minority" - anonymous
A man without god is a man. A God without man is nothing!!
--
The greatest knowledge is the knowledge that there is so much more to know and the greatest discovery is the discovery that there is so much more to discover
"All new ideas good or bad, great or small start with a one-man minority" - anonymous
A man without god is a man. A God without man is nothing!!
--The greatest knowledge is the knowledge that there is so much more to know and the greatest discovery is the discovery that there is so much more to discover"All new ideas good or bad, great or small start with a one-man minority" - anonymousA man without god is a man. A God without man is nothing!!
--The greatest knowledge is the knowledge that there is so much more to know and the greatest discovery is the discovery that there is so much more to discover"All new ideas good or bad, great or small start with a one-man minority" - anonymousA man without god is a man. A God without man is nothing!!
--The greatest knowledge is the knowledge that there is so much more to know and the greatest discovery is the discovery that there is so much more to discover"All new ideas good or bad, great or small start with a one-man minority" - anonymousA man without god is a man. A God without man is nothing!!
--The greatest knowledge is the knowledge that there is so much more to know and the greatest discovery is the discovery that there is so much more to discover"All new ideas good or bad, great or small start with a one-man minority" - anonymousA man without god is a man. A God without man is nothing!!
--The greatest knowledge is the knowledge that there is so much more to know and the greatest discovery is the discovery that there is so much more to discover"All new ideas good or bad, great or small start with a one-man minority" - anonymousA man without god is a man. A God without man is nothing!!
--
"All new ideas good or bad, great or small start with a one-man minority" - anonymous
A man without god is a man. A God without man is nothing!!
__._,_.___
Posted by: Xavier William <varekatx@gmail.com>
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