[www.keralites.net] Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: [TheBecoming] PORTUGESE CONQUEST IN INDIA AN UNTOLD STORY IN OUR HISTORY BOOKS

 

There were slaves, serfs and low castes all over the world in the agricultural age though they were more than a minority.

In the past might was right and a well organized 10% could hold the unorganized majority as slaves or serfs. The equation remains the same today with the organized minority of politicians and employees holding the unorganized majority to ransom.

With industrialization they needed workers who could read, write and make decisions for themselves. Educated populations could not be enslaved like uneducated farm workers. Educated workers began to assert themselves and so we have democracy. There is no point in judging the past in terms of modern democratic ideals. But there is no point in whitewashing the past either. Even worse is to glorify the violence in one's own heritage while condemning identical violence in others' heritage. 

On Mon, 7 Sep 2020 at 10:29, sanjeev kulkarni jeevkulkarni@yahoo.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Xavier,

 

The social structure was formed and followed by the whole society. It was not dictated by just 2-3% of the people.  And if that was the case, we have to assume 97% of the people were stupid and only 2-3% were a treasure of wisdom. It is a bold assumption that we can see injustice in the structure today but for several thousand years the actual supposed victims did not feel the heat. No one follows any idea unless they see some benefit for following it.  See even in Koran Mohammad had to offer 72 virgins and rivers of honey and milk to the believers in his ideas. Every principle in Koran prescribes reward for following it. Allah knew unless people see the benefits they will not follow even 'god'. Were Brahmins more intelligent and resourceful than god? Did they succeed where Allah did not dare to tread? If they did, give the devil its due! They got what they rightfully deserve.

 

Now the society was made to follow the religion just like circus animals are trained to perform various acts.  Their trainers imbibe in these animals what will give them rewards and what attracts punishment and then animals are accustomed to following the rituals without thinking.  Religion is just like that. If people behave like circus animals they should not complain against others...  

 

Also, if the social structure changes, the so-called oppressed communities become powerful economically, numerically or politically. They do not become the idol of tolerance and justice.  They themselves follow the same hierarchy just by replacing earlier community on the top by their own community. But the hierarchy continues. So present-day oppressed or historically oppressed are only the cradles on a giant wheel coming down and going up in cycles.   No one is willing to change the giant wheel. They only want to be at the top of the hierarchy.  So they have no moral justification or grounds to protest.  Their idea of revolution and social change is limited to keeping themselves at the top and others down and not changing the hierarchy. Ask those who are vocal about it whether they are willing to forego Government benefits based on caste. They will justify it that several hundred years ago their ancestors were exploited so they deserve the benefits even if unjust to others who did not commit the 'crime'.  So crime continues only the actors change. 

 

So my contention is - there is no reason to point finger on any particular class as oppressed and oppressor. It is just temporary high and low of the giant wheel of social hierarchy.  If and when others get a chance, they follow the same system.

 

No one class is responsible for creating this system.  Everyone contributed because they saw some benefits in it.  It was a collective idea and wisdom of masses.  No point in singling out anyone, especially they did not see anything wrong in it for several thousands of years.  The idea is attractive to them as long as they are placed on the higher rung and are beneficiaries.  Those getting benefits of reservations everywhere and financial benefits even when their lot is improved and such largesse are not justified will not be willing to forego them in the name of justice and equality for which they go blue in the face lecturing 'higher castes'.

 

So in a nutshell - (1) no one caste or community is responsible for the social hierarchy.  (2) Those benefitting from the reversed discrimination will not be willing to forego them voluntarily in the name of justice and equality.  They pay only lip service to these principles and preach others to following them but never practice themselves.  

 

 

SANJEEV

On Monday, 7 September, 2020, 07:03:11 am IST, Xavier William varekatx@gmail.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Sanjeev,

We humans are hierarchical with a pyramid power structure. But before I go into it we have to go back in time.

In the preagricultural age humans lived in small isolated but nomadic groups. These groups were egalitarian and transparent and everyone knew everyone intimately. But once we settled down to the agricultural way of life our social structure changed completely and we became hierarchical with a pyramidal power structure and in most societies this pyramid came with the priests at the top. This resulted in social anomalies. The injustice in these systems were not apparent. That is why it is called structural violence which is violence or injustice built into the system.

Most social movements in the past were directed against this structure. Thus in India, the Charvakas, the Buddhists, the Jains, the Sikhs etc were directed against this structural form of injustice with the priestly Brahmins at the top. They - the Brahmins - seldom had to get involved in the direct violence.

Thus in Kerala the Nairs offered their women to the Brahmins and they considered it a privilege. They never offered their women to the Kshatriyas though they had the political clout. Obviously religious or superstitious power is often more critical than the power of armies.

In Europe too there was a pyramidal hierarchy with the priests at the top and then came the ruling class - Lords, landowners etc - and the serfs at the bottom. People rebelled against this too and it resulted in the reformation movement in the church.

In the wake of the French and Russian revolutions they were the priests who were massacred first by the people. Because the people knew that the priests were behind all the exploitation though outwardly they were peaceful..

Luckily or unluckily in India we never had any violent rebellion as in Europe. But people like Ambedkar identified the Brahmanical interests as the evil though Ambedkar himself was adopted and educated by a Brahmin.

Now our power structure has changed completely. We now have organised politicians and trade unions at the top of the pyramid instead of the priestly class as in the past. These well-organised  powermongers appropriate to themselves all the power and privileges at the expense of the unorganised majority. However the priests still have considerable clout all over. Thus the President of the US is the most powerful man in the world. But neither he nor the other political leaders have the kind of clout that the Pope has though the latter has no army worth the name.

On Sun, 6 Sep 2020 at 06:19, mohannatarajan2001 mohannatarajan2001@yahoo.co.in [TheBecoming] <TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Ji

Brilliant exposition.hats off to u

Mohan 

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------

From: "sanjeev kulkarni jeevkulkarni@yahoo.com [aryayouthgroup]" <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com>

Date: 05/09/2020 23:38 (GMT+05:30)

To: Arya Arya <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com>, holy_crap@yahoogroups.com, sacred-illusions@googlegroups.com, worldmalayaliclub@yahoogroups.com, keralites@yahoogroups.com

Cc: dalit_edu@yahoogroups.com, "TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com" <thebecoming@yahoogroups.com>, india-unity@yahoogroups.com, indiathinkersnet <indiathinkersnet@yahoogroups.com>, awake_india@yahoogroups.co.uk

Subject: Re: [aryayouthgroup] Re: [TheBecoming] PORTUGESE CONQUEST IN INDIA AN UNTOLD STORY IN OUR HISTORY BOOKS

 

Xavier,

 

Thanks for your reply.  But I am not any wiser if Brahmins are continuing any atrocities which are still institutionalized today. That was the crux of the issue.

I can make out other castes were committing crimes and caste discrimination.  I do not understand what was the idea of calling it "on behalf of Brahmins?" Were Brahmins reluctant or not capable or considered it a dirty job not worthy of their status?  Why others obliged if they did not agree with the system?  On what basis you say it was on behalf of Brahmins and not on their own by these other castes?

 

I can figure out, caste hatred started after the failure of the 1857 freedom struggle. Hatred started between Hindus and Muslims and between Brahmins and non-Brahmins.  The reasons are obvious even to the blind.  British colonial masters realized who had challenged their power in India and who had the intellectual capability to analyse colonial exploitation and awaken sleeping society.  In Maharashtra, the list of Brahmin freedom fighters is very impressive compared to others.  So it was in the interest of British colonial masters to sow seeds of caste discrimination when it was practised for thousands of years without social strife. New educational policy and books giving distorted history were circulated. (Same tactics were used by America to brainwash the Taliban against USSR  in Afghan war). If it was really exploitative as is made out to be, I do not think people would have continued it for several thousands of years.  So there is something fishy here.  All the so-called caste atrocities mentioned in Manusmruti are on paper.  But you hardly find any actual events documented and authenticated.  So the question is who actually translated Manusmruti and told the people that this is what is written in Manusmruti?  Why it was not practised anywhere?  You come across Muslims stoning to death people committing adultery. But you never come across anyone putting hot lead in the ears of lower caste person for listening to Vedas.  It is more of hype than reality. These myths are deliberately circulated even today. 

 

Also, Manu, Ram, Krishna, Vishwamitra, Valmiki (who wrote Ramayan) were not Brahmins.  All the scriptures etc. who suppose to give a high place to Brahmins in social hierarchy were not authored by Brahmins.  And there is no mention of any revolt by lower castes in thousands of years if they were really suffering.  It was also practically impossible for 2-3% people to exploit 97% of people for several thousand years. So the question is who invented these myths and why and why are we carrying the same without questioning the facts and motive?

 

I think Brahmins are a handy target to shield real culprits having money and power because Brahmins have no money power and no muscle power and they are only 2-3% so no political clout either.  People, of course, will hate those who make progress not just in India but abroad also without any patronage. So any myth supporting their hatred is accepted without questions.   The real perpetrators of atrocities have political, muscle and money power but others have no courage to talk about them lest there will be a price to pay. So Brahmins are a soft target. 

I hope in all fairness, at least you will give justice to this reality in future. 

 

SANJEEV

On Saturday, 5 September, 2020, 03:01:54 pm IST, Xavier William varekatx@gmail.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups..com> wrote:

 

Sanjeev,

In Kerala they were the Nairs, the Sudra class, who were in the forefront of all the violence on behalf of the higher classes as was seen at Sabarimala two years ago.. For some strange reason there are only a handful of Kshatriyas in Kerala and no Vaisyas to speak of. So all the dirty work was done by the Nairs-Menon-Nambiar-Pillai classes. Kerala was ruled by the Hindu Kings of Cochin and Travancore and their armies and police were packed with the Nairs-Menon-Nambiar-Pillai classes. So all the atrocities on the lower castes were perpetrated by these classes on behalf of the higher castes. Even now there is unbridgeable animosity between the NSS representing the Nair classes and the organisations such as the SNDP representing the Ezhavas, the most populous of the Backward castes as well as between the NSS and the KPMS representing the Pulayas who form the most populous section of the scheduled castes.

As for Brahmins entering the fray, they did not have to do it as the Kshatriyas did all the fighting on behalf of the Brahmins. In fact all over the world the priestly classes seldom resorted to violence. Instead it was always done by the soldier classes no only in India but elsewhere also.

Violence does not have to be physical always. There is what is called structural violence which is violence built into the social system. Slavery and the Serf system were examples of such structural violence. The caste system was another of such examples of structural violence.

In the past societies were highly hierarchical and such systems of structural violence were universal almost all over the world.. So we dont have to single out any society and blame them for their discriminatory policies towards slaves, serfs, Dalits, women and other weak sections of the past societies. But what the Sanghis do is they try to whitewash the atrocities of the Vedic system as is well described in the Manusmrithi, the Arthsasthra and other scriptures even as they highlight the atrocities committed by other sections of Indians such as the Muslims and Christians..

What I am trying to convey is that it is time we bury the past and work towards a common future which will benefit everyone. Confrontational politics based on religion is not an option for India. Our future lies in reconciliation and not in confrontation. 

On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 at 10:31, sanjeev kulkarni jeevkulkarni@yahoo..com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Xavier,

I am working for a reformist organization.  Can you give me a 

list of atrocities which Brahmins have still institutionalized 

today?

Any social evil like Sati, untouchability or crimes against

lower castes etc.?  Or social evils like organized crimes, riots,

burning of public property in the name of justice etc.? In Maharashtra 

state at least I meticulously check the news items of any atrocities 

committed by Brahmins against the lower castest, but have never found 

any names of Brahmins so far in any of the crimes mentioned above. 

Almost always non-Brahmins are involved who are always at the forefront

of cursing Brahmins.  Even so-called Dalits commit the same if not worse

atrocities on the castes lower than them. Maybe they will be in Kerala? 

I just wanted to check if we are deliberately harping on the dead past

or it is still relevant. 

SANJEEV

On Friday, 4 September, 2020, 09:09:07 am IST, Xavier William varekatx@gmail.com [aryayouthgroup] <aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

For over 2000 years the Brahmanic hordes crushed the Sudras, the Dasyus, the Chandalas and the Dalits. The Manusmrithi, the Arthasasthra and other ancient Indian writings attest to that. The Kerala Aithihya mala or "the legends of Kerala" written hardly a hundred years ago also attests to the despicable practices of the caste system.

When the Channar women wanted to cover up their breasts who beat them up? the high castes!

Who opposed the Dalits from even walking in the vicinity of the Vaikom Temple? The high castes?

Who stood in the way of the dalits entering the Guruvayoor temple? The Hindu king of Cochin?

Now Sanghis are trying to sweep under the carpet all the crimes they perpetrated on other Hindus. In its place they are fabricating their own version of history of denial of the caste system  in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

In the process they blame the Islamic and European invaders for India's problems.

I do not know about the history of the Islamic kingdoms of India. But it is certain that the Muslims were in the Minority. Sanghis speak all the time about the massacre perpetrated by Tippu on the Hindus in his efforts to convert them. But even now the Muslim population in Mysore is hardly 22% which would not have been the case if Tippu had adopted violent methods for conversion. Similarly Akbar was a tolerant Muslim with many Pujaris and Hindu astrologers advising him.

The Portuguese attacked Bijapur which was then under Muslim rule. Why does not our Sanghi brag about it? The Portuguese were merely 1600 in numbers. The rest of the Portuguese army consisted mainly of Hindus. Why dont the Sanghis mention such instances of the Hindus siding with the invaders?

There were hardly 30000 English men in India and they ruled over 200 million Indians, most of them Hindus. How could they have done it without the connivance of the caste Hindus?

The Sepoy Mutiny was put down with the help of the Hindu Gurkhas for which they were rewarded more than generously.

Though the Jalianwala Bagh massacre was ordered by Gen Dyer they were the Hindu Gurkhas who went in and finished off the wounded with their Kukris.

In fact the British empire depended mostly on Hindu employees in administering the country - Muslims were averse to working under the British for religious reasons.

So History tells us that the caste Hindus aided the British in subduing the Indians and in keeping them subdued or we can say they hunted wholeheartedly with the hounds. Now their descendants the Sanghis are  making up stories of how their ancestors ran with the hunted. In the process they are trying to hide the real history of India based on the barbarous exploitation of the low castes and the Dalits by the Brahmanical class and their pimps - yes in Kerala the Nairs were pimping off their women to the Brahmins until hardly a century ago.

You have glorified RANI ABBAKKA CHOWTA and her exploits. Do you think that the Portuguese were alone in attacking the Rani? There were plenty of Hindus on the Portuguese side as weell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbakka_Chowta narrates the History of the Rani. In that she is said to have taken refuge in a Mosque. She had also the Bijapur Sultan as well as the   Zamorin on her side.

She was finally defeated by the Portuguese with the aid of her treacherous husband - a Hindu.

So my dear Dava Saran Sanghi please stop this nonsense of rewriting history to suit the Sanghi Agenda. The Sanghis have power in India not because the majority likes them but because of the incompetence of the congress and the opposition

On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 at 14:40, Deva Sarran Samaroo devasamaroo@hotmail.com [TheBecoming] <TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

PORTUGESE CONQUEST IN INDIA AN UNTOLD STORY IN OUR HISTORY BOOKS

TRUE HISTORY OF INDIA DID YOU KNOW OF THIS STORY ABOUT ABBAKKA CHOWTA  👇👇👇?

The year was 1555. Portuguese colonial power was at its peak in the 1500's. They destroyed Zamorins of Calicut. Defeated the Sultan of Bijapur.

Took away Daman from the Sultan of Gujarat, Established a colony in Mylapore, 

Captured Bombay and made Goa as their headquarters.

And while they were at it, pretty much unchallenged, they even ruined the ancient Kapaleeswarar Temple to build a Church over it.

Their next target, the super profitable port of Mangalore.

Their only bad luck, just 14 kilometers south of Mangalore was the small settlement of Ullal - ruled then by a feisty 30 year old woman - *RANI ABBAKKA CHOWTA*

Initially, they took her lightly and sent a few boats and soldiers to capture and bring her back to Goa - Those boats never came back.

Shocked and enraged, they sent a huge fleet of ships this time, under the command of much celebrated Admiral Dom Álvaro da Silveira - The admiral soon returned, badly injured and empty handed.

Thereafter, another Portuguese fleet was sent - only a few injured from the crew managed to make it back.

Then the Portuguese went on to capture the Mangalore port and the fort anyways, perhaps planning to tackle Rani Abbakka Chowta from the convenient distance of the Mangalore fort.

After the successful capture of Mangalore, a huge army under João Peixoto, an experienced Portuguese General was sent to Ullal.

The brief was simple: Subjugate Ullal and capture Abbakka Chowta.

The plan was foolproof- there was no way a 30 year old lady with a few men could withstand the might of an army of thousands with advanced weapons.

*The Portuguese reached Ullal and found it deserted. Abbakka was nowhere in sight.*

_*They roamed around, relaxed and thanked their stars - Just when they were about to call it a victory - Mrs Chowta attacked with 200 of her chosen men - there was chaos all around and many portuguese lost their lives even without a fight.*_

General João Peixoto was assassinated, 70 Portuguese were captured and the rest just ran away.

*So if you're Abbakka Chowta, who's just defeated a large army of aggressors, killed a general, captured fighters and defended her city - What will you do?*

- Rest and enjoy the moment right?

- Right?    No!

*_Rani Abbakka Chowta, rode with her men towards Mangalore that same night, and laid a siege of the Mangalore fort - She not just broke inside the fort successfully - but assassinated Admiral Mascaren has the Chief of the Portuguese power there and forced the remaining Portuguese to vacate the fort.*_

She didn't just stop at this but went on to even capture the Portuguese settlement at Kundapura, a full 100 kms, north of Mangalore - Just to make a point.

The Portuguese finally managed to get back at Abbakka Chowta by *convincing her estranged husband, ( a traitor) to betray for money. * She was arrested and put in the prison where she revolted again and was killed while trying to escape.

 *Lesson from story : It is the local Indians, who themselves are responsible for slavery of our nation for 1000 years by siding with Enemies.*

*Abbakka Chowta was a Jain who fought against the Portuguese for four decades, with an army comprising of both Hindus and Muslims, a full 300 years before the First War of Indian Independence in 1857.*

What did we Indians do to her, as a mark of our respect and gratitude? - We just forgot her.

We didn't name our girls after her. We didn't even teach her stories to our kids.

Yes we did release a Postal Stamp in her name, named a boat after her and erected 2 statues - yes just 2 statues in the whole of India for someone who should be our national hero.

The Indian Coast Guard ship ICGS Rani Abbakka the 1st of a series of five inshore patrol vessels built at Hindustan Shipyard Ltd is named after Abbakka Mahadevi.

We might have got to read a chapter about her in our text books, had she been a European or an American.

Many talk about her being the last Indian to have the power of the agni-ban. In all this cacophony, our generation has lost a great hero - a great source of inspiration.

Still wondering why you've not heard about her yet?

--

"All new ideas good or bad, great or small start with a one-man minority" - anonymous

A man without god is a man. A God without man is nothing!!

The greatest knowledge is the knowledge that there is so much more to know and the greatest discovery is the discovery that there is so much more to discover

--

"All new ideas good or bad, great or small start with a one-man minority" - anonymous

A man without god is a man. A God without man is nothing!!

The greatest knowledge is the knowledge that there is so much more to know and the greatest discovery is the discovery that there is so much more to discover

--

"All new ideas good or bad, great or small start with a one-man minority" - anonymous

A man without god is a man. A God without man is nothing!!

The greatest knowledge is the knowledge that there is so much more to know and the greatest discovery is the discovery that there is so much more to discover

--

"All new ideas good or bad, great or small start with a one-man minority" - anonymous

A man without god is a man. A God without man is nothing!!

The greatest knowledge is the knowledge that there is so much more to know and the greatest discovery is the discovery that there is so much more to discover

--

"All new ideas good or bad, great or small start with a one-man minority" - anonymous

A man without god is a man. A God without man is nothing!!

The greatest knowledge is the knowledge that there is so much more to know and the greatest discovery is the discovery that there is so much more to discover

__._,_.___

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Posted by: Xavier William <varekatx@gmail.com>

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